...I just don't get it...
So here's my query: Does going to see Brokeback Mountain make one a worse Christian?
Here are the responses I've had from other Christians in regards to the film: "really? You want to see that?" "I don't want to go, I'm too Catholic, I wouldn't enjoy it." and "why would you want to perpetuate the myth that being gay is ok by going to see that movie?"
Ouch.
I'm glad that Christians are always so loving and committed to non-judgemental behaviour. I mean, I've got lots of sin in my life, but at least I'm not gay. Phew. That would just be completely unacceptable.
And just for good measure: Does going to see The Passion of the Christ make one a better Christian?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
After all, they are just movies and do not necessarily define the way we think, what we accept, believe, or who we want to be. Does going to see American History X make one a neo-Nazi? Does going to see Peter Pan make one believe they can fly? And what about Underworld II (or III or whatever it is) does one have to believe in werewolves and vampires to watch that film? Not to mention condone violence, the use of force and the objectification of women...
So then, does going to see Brokeback Mountain make one a lesser Christian?
Let the debates begin!
posted by Emily @ 2:23 p.m.
9 comments
9 Comments:
No.
I was going to type more, but anything else seems redundant.
Just no.
of course not!!!
it makes you a more informed Christian!
i get so p/o at Christians who judge movies/books by what they have heard.. make your judgements after you've seen the movie not before
(this does not mean i actually wanna see the film but anyway)
Well put Ryan.
It is a tricky issue though. Sometimes the easiest thing to do in the face of a complicated issue is to jump to quick (and unfortunately often stupid) conclusions.
Unfortunately it seems that many Christians respond to homosexuality out of discomfort rather than a thoughtful consideration of the Bible (or dare I say...compassion and understanding).
So how was the movie?
Sticking with 'No' as well... I seemed to receive a lot of flak over seeing (and enjoying) 'Rent' as well. Similar issues with people as Brokeback Mountain. I know that biblically there is no sin greater or lesser than another, but i tend to classify/level homesexuality with other sexual sins (ie. premaritial sex / lust / etc.) No worse, no better; It's simply a different kind of tempation experienced by some people, Christian and non. It's what you do with the temptation that matters.
Just my $0.02... Jon
I saw Rent and I liked it...I'm sure it'll find its way into my DVD collection.
My answer to this is a resounding 'NO'...it's a movie...if people are going to say that seeing a movie like that makes you a lesser Christian...why even go see movies? or watch TV? listen to secular music?
If that is the case...I'm in BIG trouble...
I think everyone should read Sun Tzu, but people's great belief in their own abilities and that we are not 'influenced' by our surroundings is extremely naive.
I forget the original quote but the greatest empires in history have known it is much more powerful to control the pen of the artist than the laws. Entertainment is what educates societies and mass cultures that believe they are 'free'.
Anyway, take this point, homosexuals make up less than 5% of population but their issues gain more media play and are more politically important than millions of homeless and abused kids, battered wives and women's health issues. Why? Because through TV and movies we have been fed this without realizing it.
And now as 'educated' and 'cool' open-minded Christians we follow the social norms that being gay and having abortions are just 'choices' and not wrong.
Well - abortions are murder - and contrary to the media the vast majority are for cosmetic/convenience reasons. As Gandhi said judge a society by how it treats it weakest members - who is weaker than an unborn child???
Just call a spade a spade.
As for homosexuality - yeah, it's a sexual sin that I'd compare more to pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia - Now let's not judge and say only some of these are bad - but all are 'unnatural' following not only the Bible but also the western secular genesis - the origins of species and Darwin. Over time these 'defects' should be cleaned out and not reproduced by the natural orders of things if it was natural homosexuality (i.e. they would not reproduce). However, those that a sexual deviants (pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia), as per the great Freud, well they just have self control issues. Whether these desires are ‘natural’ or cultural is another issue. I say cultural, Freud would say natural. But then again Freud thought blacks were small brained less developed humans that hadn’t developed their brains and hence focuses so much on sexual activities. I would say being slaves, raped, beaten, not given educations…yeah, well I vote cultural influences.
We all have urges but controlling them is what separates us from animals. If you think we are just animals no point in reading this...just bark or grunt or something.
In that case murder, rape etc.. is not RIGHT or wrong just legal or illegal. If there is no God there is no right or wrong but if there is a God...well He'll judge us, so I'll stop with my two cents.
We should love everyone as God's children but we must not compromise what is True or Right in sharing that love but find 'creative' ways to help them see and get a relationship with the Light as well.
God Bless.
p.s. Summary - Trillion dollar marketing/advertising industry knows we are what we ingest - so choose wisely with discernment.
p.s.s. Finally, brethren, WHATEVER IS TRUE, whatever is HONORABLE, whatever is RIGHT, whatever is PURE, whatever is LOVELY, whatever is OF GOOD REPUTE, if there is ANY EXCELLENCE and if ANYTHING WORTHY OF PRAISE, DWELL ON THESE THINGS.
(Phil 4:4-9).
Dear Anonymous,
Romans 2:17-24.
"Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth -- you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who brag about the law, do you dishonour God by breaking the law? As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Romans 3:912, 19,20.
"What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:
There is no one righteous,
not even one;
there is no one who
understands, no one who seeks
God.
All have turned away, they
have together become
worthless;
There is no one who does
good, not even one....
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those whoare under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observingthe law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."
Thank goodness for grace, mercy, and forgiveness. It's a good thing we're not the ones ultimately responsible for handing those out in the end. And it's quite unfortunate that we won't have all of the answers until we meet Christ vis-a-vis; having all of the answers now would make life a lot less complicated.
But if we had all of the answers, where would the debate be?
And for the record, I don't believe that I ever stated whether I thought practicing homosexuality was wrong or not (if one is not performing homosexual acts, is one still 'gay'and thereby 'wrong?' -- just a question)
As for being what we ingest and having discernment - how can we have discernment without exposing ourselves or viewing the things about which we are to discern? In order to test a spirit, do I not first have to encounter it? (1 John 4:1-6)
One more thing: I believe there is quite a bit more than just controlling our urges (and by this, I assume you mean sexual urges) that separates us from the animals...arf arf, grunt, grunt? (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, it was my primitive nature showing through--or perhaps just my immature nature...)
Thanks for your thoughts. You are right: we should love everyone as God's children.
***********************************
PS: "The man of integrity walks securely, but he who takes crooked paths will be found out." (Proverbs 10:9)
Why are you so anonymous??
I have read everybody's comments, and (obviously) have a a few of my own. Firstly, I stand with the majority and say "No" going to see Broke back Mountain does not make you a lesser Christian. But understand a few things. Mr. Anonymous has some valid points (although I had to read his blog 3 or 4 times to find any semblance of order to it). Garbage in, Garbage out people. We cannot expect that if we surround ourselves with worldly things that we will not be influenced. On the other hand, where else do we root down? Do we root down in the church? Do we retain healthy growing relationships with other Christians? Do we surround ourselves with a community of believers and fill our hearts with the word of God? If so, then I think we have little to lose by watching secular entertainment of any kind.
We as Christians still live in a world of sin. We are called to be in the world, but not of the world. I think being naive to what the "world" has to offer is no way to live out our lives. Yes, purity is to be sought after, but ignorance, never. If we do not understand what someone is going through, or how if feels to them (not neccesarily through personal experience) then how are we supposed to present the Love of Christ to them? Surely we are not to soap box preach at them. Love is an action, shown through compassion, acceptance, forgiveness. So Mr. Anonymous, even though the thought of homosexuality may make you cringe, try to understand the Christ loves everyone, no matter what sin they have in their life. Also try and remember how disdainfully you look upon that sin, the next time your best friend talks about having sex with his girlfriend out of wedlock.
Now I am NOT saying that committing sexual acts of a homosexual nature are ok, and yes, Mr. Anonymous, homosexuality can be classed as "unnatural", and yes we do have urges and controlling them seperates us from the animals BUT why do we have those urges? Maybe you were lucky and your chemical wash came in right on cue, but maybe someone else's left out the part that told them they are supposed to be attracted to women. Or, it could be that it was something cultural that happened to them when they were young, and didn't manifest until they were old enough to start having sexual attractions to other people. I'm not saying I know why gay people are gay. I am saying that I have a certain level of tollerance towards homosexuality. I have this not only because 2 people I once knew, loved and respected are gay...and bi-sexual, but I also at one time have struggled with whether or not I am gay. I have decided, that no...I am not, but I will never condemn someone for having those urges, or even acting on them. In the end, I count myself chief among sinners, who am I to condemn anyone? I don't fit well on a soap box. I will never preach at someone, but instead show them love through tollerance of their beliefs and choices and through acceptance of them as a person.
As for your question Emily, I must end with this. If I am willing to tolerate watching movies like, Hostel that have both extreme gore and boarderline hard core porn, or listen to Dre and 50 rap about pimpin ho's and smackin' a bitch, or watch family guy, or play mortal kombat or World of Warcraft, then I should have no problem watching a movie about 2 gay men.
P.S. Mr. Anonymous said one other interesting thing. He said, call a spade a spade. Ok, lets do that. This is mainly for the men out there...especially people who share the same view's on homosexuality as Mr. Anonymous.
The last time you were looking at or watching porn (which by the way...is a sexual sin) did you cringe when 2 girls had sex together??? I doubt it.
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luke 6:41
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own?
Think about it.
You're right Shadow. God loves his sons and daughters who are homosexual, just as much as he loves his children who are deemed straight. God does not screw up. What you have touched on is the very root of sin. The great deciever, is a manipulating self righteous prick. But, like any good liar, he know's that a lie with some truth in it, is more believable then one that has no truth in it. So, sex is supposed to be beautiful in marriage. "It's ok little children, sex is beautiful." Do you see how what he is saying is somwhat true? It is a perversion of the truth.
As for which is more sinful? Neither. The straight man who has sex outside of marriage, the gay man who has sex with another man, the person who robs a convenience store, they are all the same. We have all sinned and fallen short, so we should count ourselves chief among sinners, and not condemn in any way.
You've got it right too Wesley. Love God, love your neighbour, but don't forget that loving someone is a choice. It requires a constant effort to do what is right for, and in respect of them. If you love God, you will follow him. You will follow Christ's teachings. Be Christ-like. Love, forgiveness, acceptance. These are the keys. Following Christ does not mean that you CAN'T be attracted to someone or something. Every one has impure thoughts. I've imagined being with another man, being with a certain woman, robbing a store, killing someone and these are all things that I should not have meditated on, but we all think about things that are not true, right or noble. When we turn those thoughts into actions, that's when we are in trouble.
P.S. Wesley it sounds like someone or someones in your life haven't displayed that to you or someone important to you, so I wouldn't expect you to really trust people to be "Christ-like" but there are people who wake up every day and try. I'm sorry for your hurt, and I've been where you are...rejected, and betrayed by the church. It sucks. I hope you soften your heart, and remember that if people turn their back on you (even claiming that that is what Christ wants them to do) He himself will not, and they will one day be convicted of their sinful judgement, and hopefully will repent.
God Bless all.
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